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October 2013 Newsletter

Letter to Friends

Newsletter of the Santa Fe Monthly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends


Tenth month 2013


Calendar of Events


Meeting for Worship at the Meetinghouse, 630 Canyon Road is held every Sunday at 9:00 a.m. and 11:00 a.m. First Day School is during the 11:00 a.m. Meeting. Singing is at 10:00 a.m. each Sunday.


Sunday, 10/06 12:30 Potluck @ Rise of Meeting

Sunday, 10/13 10:10 2nd Sunday Friends Worship Sharing

Sunday, 10/20 10:10 Peace & Social Concerns &/or A Capella singing,

12:30 Meeting for Worship for Business

Sunday, 10/27 12:30 Regular Meetings for Worship


The Monthly Query for the 10th month, 2013

How do we support tenderly those whose views differ from our own, knowing that the Light shines in them also? (based on IMYM F&P, p. 134, #3, 2nd sentence).




Oct. 3 – People for Peace meets the 1st Wednesday of the month at 7 pm. Meetings are held at the Commons Co-Housing, 2300 W. Alameda St. Questions to Linda Hibbs, 983-3906.


Oct. 6 – Monthly Potluck will take place at the rise of the 11:00 a.m. meeting. Beginning in January, potlucks can only be held if sufficient people sign up for cleanup and closing.


Oct. 6 – Contact Ministry & Counsel clerks Allen Winchester or Carolyn Sigstedt for the committee meeting schedule.


Oct. 13 – 2ND Sunday Friends Journal Worship Sharing article is “Meeting for Worship with Attention to Stories” by Lucy Duncan from the May 2013 Friends Journal – So, how do we share the spiritual essence of our stories? Beginning this Sunday, copies of this article will be available in the folder next to the bird house in the library. Everyone is invited to attend! We will begin at 10:10 am and close at 10:50 am. Friends are encouraged to suggest articles, letters or poems from Friends Journal to consider in future Worship Sharing’s. For questions please contact Howard Shulman @ 984-9908.

Oct. 20 – 10:00 am, 3rd Sunday Singing -- A Capella singing as preparation for worship. This is meant to be singing for anyone that has a desire to sing ("if you can talk you can sing"). We do improvised vocalization (making sounds and listening), chanting, or singing hymns from our hymn book "Worship in Song". If you have a favorite reading we can try chanting it. For questions or suggestions, please contact Guthrie Miller at 954-4224 or


Oct. 20 - Peace and Social Concerns meets the third First day of every month between worship services from 10:05 to 10:55 am, Pam Gilchrist chairs these efforts and will publish topic in the weekly digest.

Oct. 20 - Business meeting for Worship will meet at the rise of the meeting.


Nov. 15-16 - New Mexico Friends Regional Workshop will be held November 15 - 16 at Albuquerque Friends Meetinghouse. This Workshop offers an opportunity for Friends throughout the New Mexico Region to explore, find common ground and become energized about Growing in Spirit: How Do We Come Alive? through a mixture of experiential activities, small groups, worship, discussion and worship sharing with facilitators Rebecca Henderson, David Henkel, and Rob Pierson. Included in this newsletter is a full Call description and a Registration form. We ask that all registrations be sent in by October 30 (form at

Santa Fe Friends Meeting

Meeting for Worship with Attention to Business

Ninth Month, 2013 (Sept. 15, 2013)


Present: Jan-Willem Jansens (Clerk), Peggy Giltrow (Recording Clerk), Pamela Geyer, Bob Gaines, Philip Balcombe, Michael Simon, Carol Woodsong, Ford Robbins, Howard Shulman, Lowber Welsh, Frank Hirsch, Linda Hibbs, Guthrie Miller, Betsy Lombardi, David Murphy, Roxanne Seagraves, Carolyn Sigstedt, Pamela Gilchrist, Margaret Stanicci, Nichoe Lichen, Allen Winchester, David Giltrow, Lynne St.Clair.


The Clerk opened the Meeting with silence at 12:35 pm. He introduced the Meeting Query: Mindful that the light leads us in different ways, how do you demonstrate your respect for others’ modes of service? (IMYM F&P p 143, 4).


The Minutes for Eighth Month, 2013 Business Meeting were Approved, as were the Amendments to the Minutes of the Seventh Month Business Meeting.


First Day School Parents/Caregivers Committee Report. Please see Appendix A at the end of these Minutes for the written report.


Highlights of the report included a discussion of challenges for First Day School as some of the current cohort enters Middle School years, a time in which the current culture places increasing stress on children, resulting in the “loss of middle childhood”. Some ideas for encouraging continued engagement were suggested.

The committee endorses the ideal of having two meeting rooms for different ages of children, if at all possible, and forwards this recommendation to the Future Planning Committee.

Space improvements for the First Day School Room include a reminder to Meeting not to just place donations in the room without speaking to Marty or others on the committee.

Meeting accepted the report of the First Day School Parents/Caregivers Committee.


Residence Committee The Committee had not met, but did have some suggestions on housekeeping and security.


Resident David Murphy has agreed to lock the Meetinghouse on the 2nd, 4th, and 5th Sundays of the month. This might have to change if the job he finds requires Sunday work. He asks that a backup list of people willing to lock up if needed be compiled.

Cleanup is the responsibility of all of us.

Suggestions included the purchase of one or two dishwashers, although that might require new, major plumbing. It was also suggested that one door be changed so that it locks automatically. These ideas can be pursued with the Building Committee. Lowber Welsh offered to join the Building Committee.


Meeting has been given a defibrillator. It will be housed on top of the trastero. Training will be provided later. Meeting thanked Pam Geyer for her donation, as well as participating in three years of planning for the AED.


Proposal for cleaning up and securing Meetinghouse after Meeting for Worship. Please see Appendix B. Details in this proposal, accepted and approved by Meeting, make important changes in hospitality offered by Meeting.


No one has come forward to take responsibility for hospitality and security for the Meetinghouse. Pam Geyer and Bob Gaines have brought forward proposals which will close the Meetinghouse at 1 p.m. on 2nd, 4th and 5th Sundays; cancel service of coffee and tea on the portale , beginning on Sunday, Sept. 22, unless someone commits to monitoring supplies and properly cleaning up; cancel any potluck for which 2 persons have not committed to cleaning up afterwards; and require a specifically designated person to clean up and lock up if there are threshing or worship sharing sessions that extend beyond 1 p.m. on Sunday. M&C will close on 1st Sunday and Business Meeting will close on 3rd Sunday.

The proposals were read and discussion ensued. It was pointed out that fellowship is one of the strongest aspects of Friends, so we corporately need to take care of the responsibilities required to continue to make hospitality possible. Details were discussed, including the need to let the Resident know of supplies which need to be purchased, a reminder that Meeting has previously agreed that food serving dishes for Potluck should be taken home rather than washed at Meeting (easier for closers and avoids clogging drain), and that the sieve in the kitchen sink drain should be used consistently. If a meeting accepts responsibility for closing and securing the Meetinghouse, the designated person from that committee is still responsible for closing even if that meeting is cancelled. The Building Committee was asked to address plumbing problems. Carolyn Sigstedt volunteered to join Bob Gaines to clean up after potluck in October. A volunteer is needed to join Pam Geyer to clean up after potluck in November and December.

Meeting accepted and approved all 5 of the items listed in the proposal. The Clerk expressed Meeting’s thanks to Pam Geyer for all the work she has done to close and secure the Meetinghouse over many years, for her willingness to continue to the end of this year, and for her help in formulating a clear proposition to help Meeting move forward.


Resident’s Report for August, 2013. Appendix C.


The Resident’s report listed the amount of time worked and tasks accomplished. In addition he is buying new items needed for Guest Apartment and Meetinghouse. The Guest Apartment was occupied 23 nights out of a possible 31. Income from donations for use of the Guest Apartment was $865, including $25 for a copy of the book about Olive Rush.

Several members, including 9.a.m. meeting, commended David Murphy for his quick and thorough mastery of the Resident’s responsibilities since his unexpected early assumption of duties on August 13. The Resident’s report was accepted with great gratitude.


Camino Lejo Donation


The donor and Meeting representatives presented a report about the final transaction of the conversion of a donation of land to a monetary donation.

This is the 5th year since the initial donation of 55% of a property on Camino Lejo as a future building site for a Meetinghouse. The rest was to be completed in 2014. In the ensuing time it has become clear that a Meetinghouse cannot be built on that property because of an adamantly opposed neighbor as well as access problems. Many people have put in much work to try to make the plan work, but Meeting decided not to go forward in light of the insurmountable problems.

That left the question of what to do with this asset. The donor, who prefers that the land not be used for development, agreed that the rest of the property will not be gifted to Meeting, and asked that he be able to buy back the 55% of the property now held by Meeting. Meeting agreed at the business meeting of Fourth month 2013, to the donor’s offer to buy back the 55% for $l65,000, an amount based on the price (i.e., $300,000) at which the entire undeveloped property was appraised 5 years ago.

The Meeting’s lawyer, Tony Sawtell, recommended the donor use Jeremy Jones as his lawyer to draw up the necessary buy-back agreement. Jeremy Jones advised the donor that the process is straightforward, but the price is too high. The current county assessment value is $182,000 for the entire lot, or $100,122 for the 55%.

Meeting’s representatives who were asked to handle this conversion of the land donation to a cash donation have asked for the discernment of Meeting in accepting the change in value based on the new appraisal. Meeting agreed to go forward and sign the agreement with the new price of $100,122. Meeting approved, with great gratitude, the modification of this transaction. The Treasurer from 2008, when the donation was initiated, thanked the donor for his forbearance in the transaction to change the gift of land into a gift of cash, with special gratitude for the gift and for his willingness to let us proceed in the manner of Friends. The Clerk thanked all who accepted roles necessary for discernment and responsibility.


Peace & Social Concerns Committee met as usual on the third Sunday morning.

The report included a request to join the Interfaith Alliance and other faith groups to promote a petition supporting a minimum wage of $10.51 for all of Santa Fe County. Meeting approved the committee’s request to explain and pass the petition after each regular Meeting for Worship for the next several Meetings.

The committee asked Meeting to approve a draft Minute on opposition of military action by the US and other foreign countries in Syria, based on a Minute from Boulder Meeting, to be sent with the Clerk’s signature to President Obama, Secretary of State Kerry, Senators Udall and Heinrich, Congressman Lujan, and the local press. The proposed Minute was read and discussed. After a sense of the Meeting was reached, the draft minute was accepted with gratitude. It will be amended by Pam Gilchrest, Jan-Willem Jansens, and Ford Robbins and sent to the whole New Mexico congressional delegation as well as the originally proposed recipients. We will also send our Minute to Boulder Meeting with thanks for their initiative. Meeting continues to hold Syria in the Light.


Draft Minute on Opposition to Military Action against Syria, Appendix D


Traveling Minute for Rebecca Henderson, Appendix E


Rebecca Henderson has been asked to be a plenary speaker at Arizona Half-Yearly Meeting, Oct. 4-6, 2013. She requested a traveling minute from Santa Fe Monthly Meeting. The Clerk read the draft minute, and the Meeting approved it. The Meeting wishes Rebecca well in Arizona. Since she and Peli have already departed, the clerk will sign the Minute and email it to her.


Report of Discussion on Religious Education, Held on 8th Day, 9th Month, 2013. Appendix F


David Henkel, convener of the Religious Education Committee and leader of the discussion held on Sept. 8, was not able to be at this Business Meeting. He asked that the following 3 paragraphs be read, and that Friends familiarize themselves with the rest of the report as published in Appendix F at the end of these minutes. Much of the report consists of Friends’ responses to the questions: Why do we want to have religious education? For whom do we intend to provide religious education? What elements do we want to include in our religious education? When should religious education be scheduled?


“The discussion session did not result in a detailed proposal for a religious education program. The sense of the gathering was that some of our current activities already constitute foundations and opportunities to pursue that (2nd First Day worship-sharing about articles from Friends Journal; Marty Carroll’s First Day School program.)

It was recognized that younger people have different ways of participating in dialogue about these matters than do older people, and that opportunities should be made for a broader range of participative opportunities. One thought was that energetic activities might be more appealing to young people than sedentary ones, and that contemplative practices may be more accessible to those of longer age.

Friends are invited to share with all of us (via email, postings on the kiosk, or spoken messages in the context of meeting) those things that we are led to organize as well as those things that we seek to be organized by others. However, if we are shy in doing so, we are not likely to advance the purposes of religious education for the Santa Fe Monthly Meeting of Friends.”


The Clerk, who found Roxanne Seagraves willing to read the paragraphs above, emphasized that this is just the beginning of discussion, allowing a platform for friends to talk about and consider how to take on the activities listed, with a fluid scheduling system, people to coordinate, and a system to clean up after an event.

Howard Shulman reminded Friends that the Friends Journal group provides worship sharing twice a month as a gift to Meeting, as approved at a prior Business Meeting. This group wishes to remain separate, rather than be part of a committee.

Meeting approved the report and call to action, with thanks to David Henkel for doing such a thorough job in the midst of his busy schedule.


Ministry and Counsel Committee Report. Please see Appendix G for full written report.


Discussion of the report included concerns about the number of Friends who are ill, in crisis or dealing with end of life issues. Lynne St.Clair suggested that Meeting consider recommending Coming Home Connections, a volunteer group available to help anyone gravely ill, to Friends needing special attention, as well as the Time Bank. Lynn can help with this.

Concerns about the building and property will be further addressed in the report of the Building Committee, to follow later. In the past, the Committee requested Finance Committee to set aside $1,000 per year for next 12 years, to be matched by an annual $1,000 from the Maintenance Fund, to be available when the Meeting needs a new roof. A roofer will check it soon, but it should be basically sound. Plumbing is sound, except for the leakage and a problem with the sewer connection caused when the City fixed a recent water main break.

M & C is still short 2 members, and is trying to fill those vacancies.

Meeting accepted the Ministry and Counsel Report with thanks.


Meeting approved the suggested Query for Tenth Month of 2013 (based on IMYM F&O, p. 134, #3, 2nd sentence): How do we support tenderly those whose views differ from our own, knowing that the Light shines in them also?


Finance Committee and Treasurer. Please see Appendix H, Treasurer’s Report


After reading the Treasurer’s Report, Roxanne Seagraves, on behalf of the Finance Committee, encouraged people to join in discussions of Meeting’s money over the next few months. She observed that when there is more money, we need greater transparency and discussion. Our giving needs to match what we budget. The Treasurer and Finance Committee are trying to bring order to the picture of our assets, so that Friends can reflect on those assets and what we want to do with them.

The Committee was asked why the Baumann fund is in such a low-yielding CD. Since the Meeting was not clear on how to use the money, a conservative and safe location seemed the best choice at the time. Alternatives were suggested, and the Finance Committee was asked to look into alternatives and report back to Meeting. Meeting was reminded that we decided a number of years ago to keep Meeting money in Santa Fe, which initiated the switch from a bank to a local credit union for our funds. The Finance Committee was asked to organize a Meeting-wide discussion of finances as soon as possible, especially since another sizeable cash donation is anticipated shortly.

The Treasurer’s Report was accepted.


Finance Committee Report. Written report is available in Appendix I


The report, which concerned the question of how to allocate Meeting’s assets, was read to Meeting. Discussion ensued, based on the outline of possible cash needs to fix the water leak and its consequences, possible roof needs, the request from South Santa Fe Worship Group, and commitments to Good Works. Finance committee’s report recommended measured steps, including a detailed picture of Meeting’s assets from the Treasurer and at least one more Threshing Session to consider the SSFWG request.

Queries from Meeting included the following: Why prioritize the needs of SSFWG below those of 630 Canyon Road when there appears to be plenty of money? When does SSFWG need the money? (Answer—Work 90% completed and invoices received. Need by October 15 to pay within 30 days of receipt of invoices). Will bills be due before City approves necessary permits? (Yes). How should Meeting use its assets?

Meeting accepted the report, and expressed appreciation of its clarity.

The Finance Committee, based on the Threshing Session held on Sept. 8 and the many emails from Friends received since, urged that another Threshing Session be held soon. Friends observed that it is important for Meeting to follow Quaker practice. Our hearts lead us, but we need discernment and seasoning. Meeting approved another Threshing Session to be held after rise of Meeting on Sept. 22, at 12:45 to reach further discernment regarding the SSFWG request and proposal. Friends were urged to focus on generosity of spirit rather than concern with money issues and how people manage money. We will make mistakes. When we feel uncomfortable we need to step back, be still, and hold each other and the process in the Spirit.

Friends suggested that we figure out which topics to cover and set up a way to make the process clear and keep track of what is said. It was requested that people make a point of stating why we feel the way we do, rather than just giving an opinion. Some friends requested that details of finances and organizational structure, such as articles of incorporation for both Santa Fe Monthly Meeting and South Santa Fe Worship Group, be brought to the Threshing Session. Why has SSFWG found itself in such urgent need? Should SFFM get some help from another church or a professional in getting its own finances in order? Friends asked for as many facts and answers as possible.

To some, the question was clear. Santa Fe Monthly Meeting has the money. SSFWG has an urgent request for help, a gift or a loan. This is not a group apart asking for help. It is all of us. How do we help ourselves when part of us is in trouble?

In terms of the actual Threshing Session, Friends were urged to be gentle with ourselves so that we can come up with the best from a spiritual place. People need to eat, need to stretch, need to close the session within a reasonable amount of time.


Future Planning Committee. Written report in Appendix J


The Committee developed and listed parameters for comparing any proposal for new Meeting space. It hopes to sponsor a Meeting-wide gathering in January, 2014 to present several possible ideas for new or improved Meeting space.

Friends discussed the difficulty of finding people to commit to carry through on planning. The Committee was praised for its robust work during the last six years.

Meeting accepted the report.


Building Committee Report. Please see Appendix K.


The report was read and discussed. It clarifies costs and estimates for interior and exterior upgrading and maintenance projects developed and approved earlier in the year which are about to begin, and asks permission to add deep cleaning for the guest apartment . Water leakage and sewer problems were of particular concern. If a leak can be proved, a rebate may be available. The Committee will pursue this aggressively. The leak factor is 1 quart per minute, or 5,400 gallons every 30 days. The whole irrigation system has been shut off.

Meeting approved listed expenditures 1 through 3, and authorizes the committee to investigate increased suggested donation rates for the guest apartment, to help cover the costs of deep cleaning and the new wi-fi access. Meeting approved costs of diagnosis of water and sewer problems and attendant repairs, within Friendly responsibility, so that these may be resolved as quickly as possible. The Committee convener is asked to, as always, contact the Finance Committee to inform them of any anticipated expenditures over $500.

A concern was raised about availability of handicapped parking.

Meeting accepted the report with great gratitude. Special thanks to David Murphy for all the calls he made on Labor Day to successfully get the sewer line cleared.


Clerk’s report, August 18 to September 15, 2013


In addition to his regular responsibilities of clerking Meeting for Worship with Attention to Business, the Clerk assisted in discernment on the process regarding the buy-back of the Camino Lejo property, clerked a Worship Sharing on Vocal Ministry, communicated with various Friends about ideas for religious/adult education in preparation for and follow-up to a special meeting on this topic, and formulated a Traveling Minute for Rebecca Henderson.

Meeting Accepted the Clerk’s report with thanks.


Meeting closed with a period of silence at approximately 4 p.m.


Respectfully submitted,

Peggy Giltrow, Recording Clerk





Sept. 29, 4 p.m. – Roena Oesting, from La Jolla, CA to present on Elizabeth Fry. South Side Quakers are inviting those interested to hear Elizabeth Frye interpreted by Roena Oesting at the Garrett's Dessert Inn. Elizabeth Fry (1780-1845), a Quaker Philanthropist and English prison reformer, helped establish a “nightly shelter” in London for homeless people. She started a training school for nurses in 1840.


The Future Planning Committee will meet at 5:30 on Sept. 30, the last Mon. of September, in the Pick Room of the downtown Santa Fe Public Library, 145 Washington Ave. The meeting is open to anyone who wants to attend.


Quentin Wilson, a member of Albuquerque Monthly Meeting and head of the Adobe Action Group, is Speakers Committee Chair for Earth USA 2013, Oct. 4-6 in Santa Fe. He seeks hospitality for 5 people from Oct. 3rd thru 7th. They will need bed, breakfast, and a ride downtown (depending on where you live). Contact Quentin at 1-505-583-2356 home, 1-505-927-8171 cell, or You can find more information about the conference at:






APPENDIX A. First Day School Parents/Caregivers Committee Report.


FDS Parents/Caregivers Committee - 9/8/13 - 9:30 to 11:00 am

Present: Marty Carroll, Ariel Harrison, Rebecca Miles, James Hogan


1) Discussion of FDS curriculum


a. There was a general discussion of challenges for FDS especially as some of the current cohort enters the Middle School years – this is particularly challenging given the current culture with the influence of media etc. which places increasing stress on children in these years and results in the “loss of middle childhood” – this also coincides with when many children start to disengage with Meeting


b. It was recognized that engaging children at this age is challenging – you often literally need to “scare” them to get their attention – also children in this age may be motivated by very different types of activities – pleasing the teacher/adult vs competing with their peers


c. It was also recognized that children at this age also feel “stressed” and “over committed” with many of their current activities and based on previous discussions they don’t want meeting to become another commitment like this


d. Some ideas suggested were:


i. Walking meditation


ii. Relate Quaker stories / values to current issues and pressures they might be experiencing


iii. More active projects – building things


iv. Have them present on projects or activities that they might be involved in outside of meeting


v. Ask them for ideas they would like to see


2) Future Planning Committee


a. An update was provided on the current discussion of the Future Planning Committee – input was asked on the direction FDS would like to see in terms of input – the ideal of having two meeting rooms available for different age cohorts was agreed to by the FDS committee, although all recognized that this may not be possible.


3) FDS Snacks


a. The FDS committee discussed the role of snacks at FDS and if they should be continued – the committee reached consensus that snacks should be continued however juice will no longer be provided – only water; snacks provided (crackers etc.) will be provided in small servings to each child rather than opening a bag and letting children grab as much as they want (or think they want)


4) FDS Space improvements


a. Carpet – the committee again discussed the goal of getting a new carpet for the FDS room – we need to determine a suitable rug (or rugs) and the associated costs – with this in hand we could then work on fund raising to purchase the rug like we did with the swing-set – IKEA, World Market were discussed as two relatively inexpensive options


b. The FDS room is again filling up and it was suggested that we again need to remind Meeting not to place donations in the FDS room without speaking to Marty or others on the FDS committee. It was also suggested at that we have a meeting soon to clean the FDS room.


5) Next Meetings


a. October 13th – 12:15 to 1:30 (After meeting) – FDS Room Cleanup!

b. November 10th – 9:30 -11:00 – Next Regular Meeting!



APPENDIX B. Proposal for Cleaning Up and Securing Meetinghouse


As no one has stepped forward to convene the housekeeping committee, Pam Geyer and Bob Gaines propose the following.


(1) Closing and securing the Meeting House. The meeting house will be closed and secured by M & C on first Sunday, and Business Meeting on third Sunday. Business meeting and M&C should designate specific persons trained to lock up on the Sundays they meet. The meeting house will close at 1 PM on second, fourth, and fifth Sundays. It is hoped that the resident will agree to take on this duty.


(2) Coffee and tea will no longer be served on the portale. This relieves the closer of the need to clean the meeting house prior to locking up. If persons who wish to have coffee and tea available are willing to make a firm and regular commitment to monitoring and purchasing supplies, preparing the coffee and accoutrements, and properly cleaning up afterwards, this policy can be altered.


(3) Potluck Sunday requires two persons to commit to clean up afterwards. This provides for both teamwork and backup should one person become suddenly unavailable. A list of first Sundays can be passed around each Sunday after 11:00 worship with areas for two persons to sign their names and phone numbers after the first Sunday of each month. This allows persons to sign up well ahead of time, and also reminds persons who have already signed up which Sunday they have committed to. At Business Meeting this list will be reviewed. If two people are not signed up for the upcoming potluck, that potluck will be cancelled, and this will be noted in the minutes and Digests.


(4) Meeting for Muffins will clean up after itself prior to 11 o'clock worship.


(5) If there are threshing or worship sharing sessions that extend beyond 1 pm, there must be a specifically designated person who is trained to do the cleanup and lock up. Committees should meet either earlier on Sunday or elsewhere.


APPENDIX C. Resident Friend’s Report


Resident Friend’s Report for 8th Month, 2013 (9th Month Business Meeting)


Dave Wunker left for his course in Tucumcari on 8/12, and the new Resident Friend moved into the casita and began his service to the Meeting on 8/13. During the 19 days of 8th Month, the new Resident Friend worked 45 and ½ hours: 24 and ¾ hours with the garden (weeding, planting, pruning, watering); 9 and ½ hours with the guest apartment (responding to e-mails and phone calls, cleaning, doing laundry, putting shelf liner and labels in the linen closet, reorganizing the kitchen drawers, reorganizing and cleaning up the book shelves, laminating shuttle info,); and, 11 and ¼ hours with the meetinghouse tasks (mail collection and distribution, cleaning, sweeping the sidewalks and carport, reorganizing two of the kitchen cabinets and the linens on the tables, going through the literature in the portal, speaking with the city water crew, handling the trash and recycling, laminating info about Olive Rush’s home and studio). The Resident Friend also replaced the shower head in the casita; it had become encrusted with calcium and lime deposits and was inoperable.

Guest apartment occupancy: 23 nights out of a possible 31; one guest who was supposed to stay for 6 nights never showed up

Income from the guest apartment: $865 ($840 for the rental and $25 for the book about Olive Rush)


APPENDIX D. Minute on Opposition to Military Action against Syria


As Quakers, we oppose military action. Military action by the US and other foreign countries will not stop the killing in Syria or bring those responsible for the use of chemical weapons to justice. We would remind our leaders that it is important to follow the treaties we have signed, as they are the law of the land.


We support all current and future diplomatic engagement with regional stakeholders. Only international organizations such as the United Nations and the International Criminal Court are most likely to be effective in establishing a negotiated peace agreement in Syria.


We urge:

Immediate determination of a signatory country to the International Criminal Court to bring those responsible for atrocities before the ICC.


We applaud Sweden’s offer to grant permanent residency to their approximately 8000 Syrian refugees. We call on the US to increase refugee/humanitarian assistance.


We encourage the US and other nations to commit their resources and work through the United Nations High Commission for Refugees and the Red Crescent societies to relieve the suffering of the millions of Syrian refugees in countries such as Jordan, Lebanon, Italy and Turkey, as well as the displaced Syrians within the borders of Syria.


We urge that US diplomatic effort include communicating with our Arab sisters and brothers, and especially with local peace activists in the region, stressing our interest in their well-being, empowerment, progress, and health - as they define those things - and that we are willing to devote resources to those ends. This would support a political settlement, locally created, by all people in Syria, including refugee communities and internal non-violent movements.


We recommend that any settlement to the civil war build on existing institutions and not exclude people who have served the government or the army.


Critical to a lasting peace we must urge members of the international community to agree to a comprehensive arms embargo, including weapons being sent via neighboring countries as well as an embargo on foreign mercenaries.


For further information, please contact the Friends Committee for National Legislation at


(Minute to be sent to President Obama, Sec. of State Kerry, NM’s entire congressional delegation and our local press)


APPENDIX E. Traveling Minute for Rebecca Henderson


Approved at Meeting for Worship with Attention to Business, Santa Fe Monthly Meeting,

September 15, 2013


The Santa Fe Monthly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends sends greetings to the Arizona Half-Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends. We are delighted that Rebecca Henderson will be a plenary speaker at Arizona Half-Yearly Meeting, October 4-6, 2013.


Rebecca is a longtime Quaker, having grown up in the Paullina Monthly Meeting of Iowa Yearly Meeting (Conservative). After her move to Albuquerque in 1985, she settled into the Albuquerque Meeting, and in 2003 became a member of Santa Fe Monthly Meeting. She has over the years served as clerk of the Iowa City and Santa Fe Monthly Meetings and Intermountain Yearly Meeting, and has led clerking workshops for IMYM and Wyoming Friends. She has served on multiple committees, including Friends World Committee for Consultation, the Coordinating Committee for Friends Peace Teams, and Scattergood Friends School Committee. She learned facilitation skills from the Alternatives to Violence Project. She currently serves as Santa Fe Meeting's representative to IMYM's Representatives Committee and New Mexico Regional Meeting’s Representative to IMYM Procedures Committee. Rebecca is the author of “Ingrid’s Tales: A Norwegian-American Quaker Farming Story,” published in April, 2012, about the Quaker community in Paullina, Iowa, a portrait of the family during the summer of 1959. This past year she led workshops for Santa Fe Meeting on Quaker Practice and Business Meeting. The pamphlet by that name was prepared by her with assistance from Santa Fe Meeting’s Ministry and Counsel Committee.


We appreciate and acknowledge the work, experience, and insight that Rebecca has in the area of conflict resolution and peace-making. Over the years she has chosen to limit her income to below a taxable level in order not to pay war taxes. She resigned her position as an environmental consultant with a firm over its contract with the Trident Submarine base. She retrained as a bookbinder, a profession more in line with her peace testimony and desire for simplicity. With other lesbian radicals, she participated in the establishment of a land trust, which among other things educates women in sustainable building and living. In 1992 she married her longtime partner, Pelican Lee, in Albuquerque Monthly Meeting.


Greg Cliburn and Pamela Geyer have served as Rebecca’s anchor committee in Santa Fe to help her craft her message. Pelican Lee, who has been attending Santa Fe Meeting, will be coming for the weekend as well. We entrust Rebecca Henderson and Pelican Lee to your care.


On Behalf of Santa Fe Monthly Meeting,


Jan-Willem Jansens, Clerk


APPENDIX F. Report of Discussion on Religious Education


Santa Fe Monthly Meeting

Discussion on Religious Education


Eighth Day Ninth Month 2013


Listed below are comments offered by Friends under several different topics relating to religious education.


The discussion session did not result in a detailed proposal for a religious education program. The sense of the gathering was that some of our current activities already constitute foundations and opportunities to pursue that (2nd First Day worship-sharing about articles from Friends Journal; Marty Carroll’s First Day School program.)


There is room for us to sponsor activities as we are led to do, allowing Friends to come forward with suggestions and requests. Several Friends indicated their willingness to engage in such activities, including organizing interfaith potlucks, presentations on special topics such as economic morality, and organizing the sharing of individual stories of spiritual journeys of those among us.


There was no sense that someone would emerge to coordinate all of these activities, although some might be called to coordinate a cluster of them.


It was recognized that younger people have different ways of participating in dialogue about these matters than do older people, and that opportunities should be made for a broader range of participative opportunities. One thought was that energetic activities might be more appealing to young people than sedentary ones, and that contemplative practices may be more accessible to those of longer age.


Friends are invited to share with all of us (via email, postings on the kiosk, or spoken messages in the context of meeting) those things that we are led to organize as well as those things that we seek to be organized by others. However, if we are shy in doing so, we are not likely to advance the purposes of religious education for the Santa Fe Monthly Meeting of Friends.


1. Why do we want to have religious education?


Deepen our faith


Keep us together


Learn to know each other


Enhance our knowledge of Quaker faith


Oral history of the Meeting


Build connections to other religious practices and faith traditions


It reinforces peaceful action


To provide religious education infrastructure at home and within our meeting


Christian Quaker as well as Universalist Quaker


Become informed about Quaker history


Do we ask new members with they have read about Quaker history?


It may be that other experiences are more important in determining membership than learning about Quaker history.


Where does Quaker practice fit in the "Christian" arena?



2.For whom do we intend to provide religious education?


For new Quakers -- plain living discussion was important in my coming to this Meeting.


Old Quaker; provide ways to bring the generations.


Deepen the experience of old-timers.


Learning as a group and what it is for us.


Inter-generational opportunities--"youth quake"


Corporate spiritual practices with an opportunity to influence


Inter-spiritual; other religious groups.


Sharing with ourselves and with others.


Infirm Friends, outlying worship groups, and Friends at a distance



3.What elements do we wish to include in our religious education?


Remember to include connecting the "what" with the "how"


A flexible curriculum to present Quaker history, i.e. Quaker 101


Quaker 101 has a high dropout rate--though it depends upon what the constituent elements are


Recognizing who Quakers are


The Bible can be valuable as well as a reference to other Quaker writings.


Rudy Marcus has a series of off-the-shelf seminars suitable for group or self-study making use of mythological stories as devices for introspection and engagement.


Steve Chase’s "Letters to a Fellow Seeker" engages the reader in Quaker exploration as a Christian faith.


One can explore and discuss a book; key questions can focus on Quaker belief.


Quaker culture; traditions versus transmissions.


Thomas Kelly's "testimony of devotion"


It may be useful to define our beliefs and develop a sense of detail; how to center and know "the truth"


We should focus less on results and more on quicker process.


Quaker practice may constitute a category of important religious education.


A workshop on economic morality


We know our faith and experimentally; business meeting is a laboratory in how we learn to live with one another.


George Fox is quoted as saying ‘The professors say that the prophets say this. Others say that Jesus says that. But I want to know ‘What canst thou say?’” (Our own lives must speak.)


There is a is a Zen proverb that says when you are walking through a mist you don't realize you're getting wet until the end when you realize you are soaked.


Unity to know each other more deeply


Each of us must be a beloved member to know the beloved community.


Group seeking


"To see what love can do"


Are there needs we must respond to?


Are our decisions rational or from the motivational spirit?


How to test our leanings?


Individual stories are powerful.


Disagreements provide an opportunity for listening.


There is a logical progression when the inner connection and action are engaged.


Approaches to the Divine


How one grows with inner conviction and power; leading!


Inner ‘movement’ as Quaking with an increase in energy.


Recognizing being moved by the Spirit


Our own Meeting has sufficient resources; we may not need to borrow them from other places.


Spiritual development that facilitates communication




Combination of individual sharing at history




4.When should religious education be scheduled?


A single day? A single hour? Less?


It's important that we make topics and activities accessible broadly, and not confine them to rigid time frames.


We should be open to this all days of the week; we should consider spontaneous occurrences as well as planned times.


Passion and creative thinking


Not restricting the time to Sunday


What are ways to involve others more than only the select few?


What are the challenges offered by imposing the Meeting’s values on the next generation?


How to use we learned in our lives?


How to apply and share those applications?


We should not focus on one time, but expand it to our calling.


A flexible schedule with fluid agenda


How can we involve inter-generational participants?


How to follow our leadings?


We can seek opportunities for volunteers to organize and participate in events.


Who will coordinate this work?


We need leaders to organize and leaders to participate.


How can we ask others about this religious education movement?


Counter the connection between second Sunday Friends Journal worship-sharing and other religious educational activities?


There need not be just one program.


There are many sources to draw upon.


We need deeper spirit practice.


We can ask Friends to respond about what they'd like to do.


We should probably increase awareness of what others among us are doing.


What is the sum of our actions as individuals?


We can help to recognize each other's gifts.


Another role is to identify individual needs, to which religious education can respond.


Marty Carroll is already a resource and model for us; we can continue a format that's already in place.


There are outreach opportunities present here for us.


Faithfully submitted, David Henkel (convener)



APPENDIX G. Ministry and Counsel Committee Report.


Ministry & Counsel Report for S. F. Monthly Business Meeting (September 15)


Following a moment of silence, M & C met September 9 from 6-8:30 p.m. at Jan-Willem Jansens

office. Present were Carolyn Sigstedt, Margy Willen, Jan-Willem and Allen Winchester.

Carolyn clerked and Allen recorded the minutes. Karen Kuranz was unable to attend.


Observations of the Spiritual Life of the Santa Fe Monthly Meeting:


We discussed the pressure felt by the Residence, Garden, Finance, Good Works and Housekeeping

Committees who are dealing with major issues without having a comprehensive report

of finances available. In discussing these pressures we learned that there are many financial

issues facing the Meeting that have not been expressed or are not fully understood. These include

structural issues that foresee the Meeting House needing a new roof and a leak under the

building that may be damaging the adobe foundation. In addition, because of a decline in volunteers,

the Garden Committee is facing increased costs to pay for maintaining the garden. We

are concerned that there appears to be no clear accounting of annual income from rental of the

apartment, donations and from outside groups who use our facility for special functions. We are

aware that the Finance Committee is working on these issues, but it is a slow process.


Nevertheless, we believe we need a clear and full picture of the Meetingʼs finances very soon,

because of the many financial decisions that are necessary in the next few months. A full picture

would include revenues, regular expenses including good works, operating expenses, reserves,

identification of special (one-time) expenditures and a comparison with previous financial



In addition we are concerned about the amount of gossip and email-missives to and between

Friends that we believe undermine the spiritual life of the worship groups. Friendʼs thoughts and

opinions are valued, but we believe they should be expressed as freshly as possible at Meeting

for Business or other worship functions. We believe this helps foster the spiritual life of our worship



Observations on the 11 a.m. meeting for worship: Concern was expressed about some

longtime Friends not attending worship for months. M & C will contact those Friends.


Observations on the 9 a.m. meeting for worship: The spiritual life is healthy and participants

continue to provide health care rides for a former member.


Observations on the Las Vegas Worship Group: . The group is working on vocal ministry

issues. David Henkel, Liaison for Las Vegas has visited several times recently. Two M & C

members plan to visit the group in October.


Observation on the South Santa Fe Worship Group: Friends are meeting at the house

of a member until they are able to use their new meeting house on Calle Ensenada.


Friend Concerns: M & C discussed concerns about eight Friends and will continue monitoring

their situations.


October Query:

“How do we support tenderly those whose views differ from our own, knowing that the Light

shines in them also?” (Faith and Practice, Page 134, Query #3, second sentence. We removed

the first four words of that sentence (“Are we able to”) and substituted “How do we.”)


Greeters and Closers for September & October:

Carolyn will coordinate these tasks with Jan Willem, Karen Kuranz and Rebecca Allahyari, who

offered to be a greeter from time to time.


Review of Aug 25 Worship Sharing on Vocal Ministry:

This was well attended. Many thoughts and concerns were expressed. Tonight we agreed that it

was time to let the issue of vocal ministry rest until November when we review the feedback on

the final phase of our Joys, Sorrows & Concerns experiment.


Joys, Sorrows & Concerns:

The final phase of our “experiment” of having Joys, Sorrows and Concerns at different times

during the meeting for worship has begun. Beginning September 1, it was announced that Joys,

Sorrows and Concerns could be expressed anytime during meeting for worship if they were

spirit led. They could be expressed after announcements as well.


Nurturing and Care Committee:

M & C is concerned about the ongoing problems of caring for members who are ill, in crisis or

dealing with end of life issues. We are becoming overwhelmed with the number of Friends

needing special attention. We discussed this idea in greater depth but will continue the discussion

in October and hope to have recommendations for Meeting for Business then.


This Land was Your Land:”

This workshop by Paula Palmer of the Boulder, CO Friends Meeting was discussed. This is a

workshop concerning how the pope and European kings systematically gave edicts ordering

colonists of the Americas to kill all heathen people they found as they began settling the “New

Land.” These edicts legislated the genocide of many Native Americans. M & C discussed how

Paulaʼs workshop would transplant to Santa Fe and decided we need more information before

making a decision. Jan-Willem will contact Paula to obtain further feedback about this workshop.



A number of items were tabled at the end our meeting and following a moment of silence we

adjourned at 8:30 p.m


APPENDIX H. Treasurer’s Report


Santa Fe Monthly Meeting of Friends

Treasurer’s Report to Business Meeting, September 15, 2013

Prepared September 12, 2013


The Treasurer is continuing to work to enter all income, expenses, and transactions since January 1 into our books. This project will be complete in time for the October business meeting. That month’s report will include accurate fund balances and trends in giving compared to the budget.

Meanwhile, it can be reported that all our bills are paid, and our bank balances as of September 12 are as follows. Though our bank accounts in general to not directly reflect our funds, it is safe to say that the Maintenance Fund money market account balance is the same as the Maintenance Fund balance, and that the General Fund is our largest fund by far.

Shares: $103

Checking: $1,444

General Fund money market: $2,660

Maintenance Fund money market: $27,108

CDs: $68,721

Our total across all accounts is $95,035.

There have been questions about the Baumann bequest lately. All the money from the Baumann bequest, which is in the General Fund, was invested in a 13-month CD. It earns 0.8 percent interest. The maturity date is May 13, 2014. The current balance is $56,842.

There have also been questions about where our money is held. All our accounts and CDs are Guadalupe Credit Union products.


Prepared by Greg Cliburn, Treasurer



APPENDIX I. Finance Committee Report


Report from Finance Committee

9th month 2013

Santa Fe Monthly Meeting


Finance Committee has been blessed with several opportunities to reflect deeply on Santa Fe Monthly Meeting's financial resources, and how Friends may choose to use these assets. We are fortunate that through Spirit led prudence we, as a Meeting, have resources in reserve that give us a measure of preparation for current and upcoming expenses. The challenge we face in the coming months is how we choose to allocate these assets.


This month we held a threshing session to address a request from South Santa Fe Worship Group for assistance with their expenses in relocating to a permanent home. Friends discussed many issues in relation to this request. At this time Finance Committee does not believe we have clarity suffice to act on this request in 9th month. We will need clarity to act by the October business Meeting which will be on 20 October 2013. To reach this clarity and an informed consensus I believe we need at least 1 more threshing session prior to bringing the loan/grant $8.000 question to the Meeting for Business as an action item for these reasons:


A) we need to know the results from the Garden/leak/plumbing and how much that may cost; we need a concrete estimate and report from the Garden Committee regarding the results of this concern that was raised in the August Business Meeting; Building Committee is addressing this concern and we should have a clearer picture of these expenses in October.

B) we need to get a concrete estimate on the roof...I have heard about the need for a new roof for the past two years, but haven't heard the concrete need or estimates to cover that expense. We need an concrete estimate for this anticipated expense. Finance requests this figure from the Building Committee; Building Committee has contacted a roofer to obtain an estimate for the October Business Meeting.

C) we need to know if there is a leak under our building associated with the concern about water use raised at the August Business Meeting. We need to know what damage has/may have been done to the 630 Canyon Road property, and what costs have been incurred in this matter.

D) As indicated in the treasurer's report in October we will have a much clearer picture of our existing finances available with a current treasurer's report

E) At the last threshing session we took care to examine SSFWG's needs, but we didn't discuss our own and these need to be factored in before loaning or granting money.

F) It is important that we honor Friends Business practices and processes. It is equally important that we recognize the needs of SSFWG for prompt response.


2) Finance believe we will need several cash flow related threshing sessions over the next 6 months:


A) The gift of roughly $100,000 from Guthrie Miller should be finalized soon. Friends need to determine how to best use this gift as guided by the Spirit.

B) when the Bauman funds mature next May we need to get clear on use of this resource.


3) Given what we learn about our cash reserves or resources we need to thresh out our Good Works as linked to real funds vs imagined desires to be of service to Friends, friends, and our community; particularly as these are linked to care and nurture of worship groups affiliated with SFMM.


All which adds up to Finance thinks we need to take measured steps.


Respectfully submitted in the Light,


Roxanne Seagraves, on behalf of SFMM Finance Committee.


APPENDIX J. Future Planning Committee Report


Future Planning Committee (FPC) Report, Sep 9, 2013

Santa Fe Monthly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends




Attending: Frank Hirsch (presiding co-clerk), John Kretzmann, Philip Balcombe, Wyn Lewis, and Rebecca Miles (committee recording co-clerk)




1.The committee opened with Silence at 6:00 pm at Philip Balcombe's house, 79 Camerada Loop, Eldorado, NM.


2.The minutes from the last meeting were approved.


3.The committee decided it should set parameters against which any proposal for new Meeting space should be compared. Parameters would include details regarding:




b.First-Day School










g.Wheelchair accessibility




4.The FPC discussed the possibility of sponsoring a Meeting-wide gathering in early 2014 during which FPC would present several possible ideas for new or improved Meeting space. This presentation would include how each proposal compares to the above mentioned parameters.


The committee adjourned at 8:00 pm with Silence.


Committee co-recording clerk, Rebecca Miles



APPENDIX K. Building Committee Report


Santa Fe Monthly Meeting

Building Committee Report: Ninth Month, 15, 2013

(Revised version, based on additional last minute data)



Several major issues occupy the committee’s attention as we report to the Meeting today:


1. A group of discreet interior and exterior upgrading and maintenance projects developed earlier in the year are about to be started and will extend into next year.

2. Data on water usage which are both expensive and puzzling will need separate specialists in leak detection and our drip irrigation system to recommend remedies.

3. The possibility of a major sewer line repair at the point where our line joins the city’s main Canyon Road line has arisen in the past month and requires further scrutiny by specialists in sewer line problem analysis and remedies.


An estimate of the cost of items in no. 1 is summarized. For issues 2 and 3, preliminary findings and opinions by our regular plumber are summarized. Several actions requiring Meeting’s consideration and approval follow.


1. Interior and exterior items to be performed include:

--Create accessible paved walkway in the garden area with extension to emergency exit gate (see next).

--Add emergency gate (non-vehicle use only) in western coyote fence, as suggested by SFFD.

--Install fireproof door for First Day schoolroom closet, as recommended by SFFD.

--Install small ramps for doorway between meetingroom and library to accommodate power chairs.

--Adjust and repair front gate for smoother opening and closing. Also provide general repairs to gate as needed.

--Repair guest apartment exterior shutters (outside GA kitchen window).

--Reverse hinges on window next to fireplace to allow greater ventilation of meetingroom.

--Restore system for opening front garage doors from outside.

--Attach newly-received AED (defibrillator) unit to wall; location advised by ad hoc AED committee.


We are also exploring costs and practicality of installing a small dishwasher in kitchen with our plumber’s analysis and estimates forthcoming. Also, later in the fall, we will schedule a meetinghouse roof inspection with estimated remaining life of present roof, and make any needed roof repairs (work to be done by most recent roofing company).


Other items on our year’s list of “things to be done” are routine jobs either completed by ourselves, such as window sill painting, or by regularly-used artisans/contractors, e.g. cleaning and inspection of space heaters plus lighting of pilot lights by licensed plumbing and heating contractor. The kitchen/restroom drain will be cleaned out.


One recently completed item is provision of Internet service to guests staying with us by installing a wi-fi modem in the guest apartment. This was approved in an earlier business meeting. There is an additional cost to come on our monthly telephone bill. The committee expects to discuss a possible increase in the present donation rate for use of the guest apartment.


We have developed a “deep cleaning plan” for the guest apartment. It is similar to what has existed for the main meetinghouse interior for a number of years, but considers the irregularity of access to the guest apartment. The plan is designed to supplement the existing cleaning undertaken by the resident between guest stays. This additional cleaning requires flexibility in scheduling an experienced cleaning person. The plan calls for up to six deep cleaning sessions per year, each session approximately 2-3 hours. It would also allow for special cleanings following extensive work in the guest apartment such as painting, plumbing work, electrical and other maintenance operations plus addressing less accessible cleaning areas such vigas, under the queen-sized bed, fan blades, windows, etc.


2. Excessive water usage.

We are pursuing identification and solutions to curb excessive water use throughout the property together with the garden committee. Two plumbers have inspected our water meter and agree that water flow is occurring when all water using devices are turned off and show no sign of leakage, e.g. toilets, irrigation system. Our regular plumber’s suggestion is to bring in a specialized leak detection company to try to pinpoint the leak, or leaks, on the property. He suggested a company he has worked with on several occasions, based in Albuquerque but which is works throughout the state.

We will also get the opinion of a drip irrigation specialist who has assisted us in the past to discuss ways of reducing water leakage and consumption.


3. Possible sewer line repair.

The resident had to arrange for emergency sewer line opening on Labor Day after a backup was discovered on the afternoon of Rebecca Henderson’s birthday party. This was the first such service needed since the major freeze of water and sewer lines in February, 2007 (?), when many galleries and houses along Canyon Road experienced the same condition. Following the cleanout, a second company was asked to pass a video camera along the line toward the street where a recent waterline break had necessitated major repairs by the city’s water department directly in front of our driveway. The camera images were not totally conclusive, but strongly suggest that our sewer line’s connection to the main sewer line has been disturbed, perhaps causing a gap and thus, in the future, causing more blockage conditions.


Our regular plumber (J. J. Gonzalez) has experience with these issues and has suggested that we try to get a company with better imaging equipment to once again put a camera down our line to look at the junction and record the images so they can be scrutinized by experts, including the city. If we need to conduct sewer line repairs, much-- if not all--of the burden for both work and funds would come from us, according to J. J. The committee will be discussing this in depth at the earliest possible time.




In anticipation of completing our list of needed work over the next few months, the committee seeks approval to spend $7,810 for the following activities, to be drawn from the Meeting’s Maintenance Account:


1. External and internal projects using outside contractor services are estimated at approximately $6,000, including materials.


2. The introduction of wi-fi for the guest apartment was earlier approved. With one-time costs and a recurring monthly increase on the present guest apartment phone line, we estimate the installation and annual cost will be about $650.


3. We request permission to add the guest apartment deep cleaning plan to maintain the facility to a higher standard (6 times/year x 3 hours x $20/hour) which will total $360 annually to the overhead expenses for the guest apartment.


4. Because of increased services and resulting expenses resulting from the above, we ask the Meeting to allow the committee to investigate various increased suggested donation rates for the guest apartment, based on several years’ past occupancy rates, to take effect on First Month, First Day, 2014.


5. We request the Meeting’s approval to continue exploring our water leakage and sewer line issues by engaging specialists, as noted above, ahead of advising the Meeting on making any major action decisions. We estimate this cost may be as much as $800 for such specialists.


Submitted by David Giltrow, convener Revisions 9/14/13

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